Redefining Limits, Resilience, and the Rise of the Wheelchair Nomad – ep.174

After a tragic accident left him paralyzed from the chest down, Fletcher Cleaves could have given up on his dreams. Instead, he rewrote the narrative. Once a promising football player, now a globetrotting motivational speaker and accessibility advocate, Fletcher shares how faith, family, and mindset helped him rise above adversity.

In this powerful and inspiring conversation, Fletcher—also known as “The Wheelchair Nomad”—opens up about:

• The crash that changed his life and the comeback that redefined it
  
• Finding identity beyond sports and transforming pain into purpose
  
• Becoming a global traveler and bringing awareness to accessibility challenges
  
• Navigating entrepreneurship, public speaking, and DEI work
  
• Advice for students, athletes, and anyone rebuilding after a setback
  

Whether you’re an athlete, parent, educator, or entrepreneur, Fletcher’s story will challenge your definition of limitations and inspire you to live boldly. Because as he says: “Don’t tell me the sky’s the limit when there are footprints on the moon.”📍 Visit www.fletchercleaves.com
📲 Follow him on Instagram: @rollinonfaith

Melyssa Barrett: Welcome to the Jali Podcast. I’m your host, Melyssa Barrett. This podcast is for those who are interested in the conversation around equity, diversity, and inclusion. Each week I’ll be interviewing a guest who has something special to share or is actively part of building solutions in the space. Let’s get started. Hello and welcome to the Jali Podcast, where we share stories that inspire, challenge, and uplift with a deep focus on building more inclusive, equitable communities. I’m your host, Melyssa Barrett, and today’s episode is one that will stick with you for a long time after the final word. My guest today is a man whose life is the very definition of resilience, courage, and transformation. Fle Cleaves, also known as the Wheelchair Nomad, is a nationally recognized motivational speaker, disability advocate, athlete, and adventurer who has turned unimaginable tragedy into a platform for powerful change. I’ll let him tell you his story, but needless to say, there was a moment in his life that didn’t mark the end of his story.

It marked a turning point. Fletcher has gone on to graduate college, travel the world, skydive, share his message on ESPN’s college game day, and speak to thousands of students, athletes, educators, and leaders across the country. He is also a TEDx speaker, and in this episode of the Jali Podcast, we’ll talk about his journey, how identity, representation, and inclusion shape his advocacy and what we can all learn from the way he leads with purpose, humor, and grit. And if you’re listening from Tracy, California, get ready because Fletcher will be joining us for Empowerment Day, hosted by the Tracy Area alumni chapter of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, incorporated in February, 2026. So students, families, and educators, you do not want to miss him live. So settle in. Let’s get into this extraordinary conversation with the one and only Fletcher Cleaves. Alright. I am always pleased and blessed when I get to talk to somebody who is just amazing, and this week is no different.

I have Fletcher Cleaves this week. I’m so excited that you have joined me for this conversation because I think you embody such an amazing mindset that I think people just can’t get enough of. I want to kind of just start from the beginning about how, and usually I ask people kind of how did you become the person you are today? And wherever that starts, because I know mindset doesn’t start with a particular day or whatever. There’s clearly something that has been put into you from the beginning. I would love to hear you tell me a little bit about your background and how you got to be the man you are today.

Fletcher Cleaves: Absolutely. So my name is Fletcher Cle. I was born and raised in Memphis, Tennessee. Great state of Tennessee, old Memphis, Tennessee. So I would definitely say, to answer your question, what is still my values and mindset today was definitely my parents. My parents never allowed me to feel like I couldn’t do anything, or they didn’t want me to think I couldn’t do anything. So that was like, you, your own person, I got in trouble. Well, they were doing it Uhuh. We worried about you. You need to make your own decisions everybody instead of following the crowd and things of that nature. And also, even though I’m an only child, I grew up in a large family and having those siblings that were five years years older than me, six years older than me, I was 13 and they were 19. And I’m like, can I play with y’all? And I was like, if you want to. But they never took it easy on me. So it kind of made me pull up by my bootstraps, so to speak, and put my big boy pants on and just always remember that you can do anything despite who you are or the things you had to overcome.

Melyssa Barrett: That’s awesome. I love it. And I mean, your story is just so powerful. So I know you played football, I’m not exactly sure when you got into that or whether it started early. What was that process like?

Fletcher Cleaves: Yes, so I was growing up, I was an active individual, so I don’t want to say bad, I don’t like to say active. So my parents, they realized that they had to put me in an organized team sports so I can use this energy to something more positive. So growing up, I played football, basketball, baseball, soccer, anything you can name that, make sure I have any free time or any energy to get into trouble. And then about middle school and beginning of high school, I fell in love with football. So I just started concentrating on that and focusing on football. And it kind of went off from there. I realized at an early age I was like, I’m kind of better than everybody else. So I kind of took it serious and got a personal trainer and got in my playbook and things of that nature. I was fortunate enough to get a scholar, a football scholarship in college.

Melyssa Barrett: Wow, that’s awesome. So then you were all set to go to what college?

Fletcher Cleaves: Lambath University. It’s a small school year in Tennessee, Jackson, Tennessee.

Melyssa Barrett: Okay. Is that where you ultimately got your degree or

Fletcher Cleaves: No, ma’am. So to back up a little bit, so I graduated high school and then I left to go train for college two days after high school graduation. So I trained for the upcoming collegiate football season, the all summer, may, June, July, then August, and then got the green light that I made the travel team, which was fantastic. But unfortunately on September 10th, 2009, I was involved in a car crash that left me paralyzed from the chest down. So when that process happened, of course I had to enroll in therapy in Atlanta, Georgia at the Shepherd Center for a year. And then I had to move back to Memphis with my parents for a couple of months just sitting at home and I realized, Hey, this ain’t for me. I got to do something and go back to school. So living back with my parents, I re-enrolled to the University of Memphis and that’s where I got my degree.

Melyssa Barrett: Okay, fantastic. And your degree was in computer science, if I remember science,

Fletcher Cleaves: Correct? Yes ma’am. Degree in computer science. So math and math always made sense to me, so I was pretty easy to me.

Melyssa Barrett: I love it. I love it. So then in terms of what were your dreams then and how did things shift for you after your accident?

Fletcher Cleaves: Absolutely. That’s a great question. So I would say at such a young age of 18 when I was injured, I really didn’t have any real responsibilities at that age. I tell people all the time, my responsibilities was school, football, girls, that’s it. That’s the only thing I heard. If I do good in school, that’s 80% of it, then I’m going to do well on the field, then the girls will take care of itself. So with that, having that real responsibility, that’s the only thing I was worried about. So my mindset was the mindset of an 18-year-old boy, so to speak. And then when my incident had my car crash happened, he kind of had switched my perspective because I was always known as Fletcher, the football player. And now that I’m not playing football anymore, I wanted to reshape my identity and figure out who I was going to become. And I never wanted to be, oh, we never heard about that guy anymore once he stopped playing football. And I was like, ain’t nothing wrong with my mind. I could still think I could still go to college. I can still graduate. I can still become a productive citizen of society. And then once that happened, I started making money, I could still travel, I can still do the things I want to do. And so that’s where that came about.

Melyssa Barrett: That’s fantastic. And I mean, I think there’s a lot of people that having gone through what you went through and the limitations that you had after that, you can tell that you saw your purpose, you found your why in the midst of all that conversation you just had about, Hey, there are things I can do and I want to travel, I want to do this, that and the other. I mean, I think so impactful because I think a lot of times people get stuck in the pain and they don’t know how to get out of the pain.

Fletcher Cleaves: Absolutely. I mean, football definitely is still those, I would say team sports in general, but football mostly because that camaraderie and understanding how football tends to be a tougher sport, so to speak. And the coaches, my college coach, especially when he got to college, when you don’t have to be there and you on scholarship is like, it’s not a game anymore. It’s just real life.

And with mental health being a fourth point of today’s society, it kind maybe wasn’t the best state that they said, but I get what they were trying to say. And one of those things was it was like nobody cares what you’re going through. The world doesn’t care. Like, oh, you lost your job, the bills are still due. Oh, your mom is sitting, whatever, nobody cares. So you need to figure out what it is you need to do to get over what it is that’s going on in your life. And so I took that mindset when I got injured, I was like, okay, my parents, your loved ones care, your friends care, but the world, okay, you paralyzed their soul was other 6 million people in America. So I just showed I feel sorry for myself and like, okay, I can still do what I can.

Melyssa Barrett: Wow, that’s amazing. One of the things I wanted to ask you though is because there are so many athletes that wrap their identity around sports like you mentioned. So what do you tell young athletes, whether it be in Tracy, my city or everywhere, about understanding that resilience and purpose and being able to redefine or rebrand their success, which you clearly have done?

Fletcher Cleaves: Absolutely. So I would say understand that your sport is going to end one day. There’s going to be one day where you no longer picking up a basketball. There’s no going to be one day where you’re no longer putting on cleats for football or whatever the case may be. And when that day comes and it’s going to come sooner than what you think, whether it is through injury. Like me at eight, if he would’ve asked me at 17 how long you think he’s going to be playing football, well, I got one more about to play another in my senior year, and then I got four years of college. So then I might go to, so I’m thinking at least minimum six years. And then, but boom, only big G God knew that this is your last year playing football. So you never know your sport will end one day. And what are you going to prepare yourself when you’re no longer able to pick up that basketball? We all think that professional athletes, that’s what I want to be a professional athlete. But if you look at the top 15 richest people in the world, none of them are athletes, right?

Melyssa Barrett: So

Fletcher Cleaves: Our society, especially our people, tend to get caught up in being that’s the only way to become successful told. And I was shown that that’s not the only way to become successful and I can still use my talents and my gifts to be financially stable. And then also I would say to those athletes that are listening though seem, it might seem that your sport is the world, but at the end of the day, it’s not that important. You need to refocus on, I’m not saying don’t take it serious. If you are have been blessed to have physical capabilities, then use those to your, let it take you to the furthest it can take you, but don’t lose sight of what’s important. Also spending time with your family, taking care of your kids and stuff of that nature too.

Melyssa Barrett: I love that. I love that. Just kind of taking your inspiration into action, I want you to tell me about how did the rise of the wheelchair nomad come into play? How did that even happen?

Fletcher Cleaves: Definitely. So once I started making money in it and using my degree, I started thinking to myself, you know what? I want to travel too. I don’t want to be leapt out. I was seeing people, I kind of missed that college experience because I was newly injured and I was living, I had to move back in with my parents. So my parents being the traditional black parents on good times, the traditional black parents, I wouldn’t have been running it. I couldn’t run it in and out the house and stay out late at night and all that fun. So I missed going to spring break in Florida. I missed all of that. So once I moved out at 24, I was like, you know what? I want to get the experience. I want to travel. I want to see these things. So I just started making a list of places I wanted to go and listening to songs and Okay, where’s that location?

How far is that? And I started doing it and people were like, man, this is amazing that you’re still traveling the world. And I never wanted to be an inspiration. I just wanted to go to Italy. I never wanted to be a motivation, I just wanted to go to Dubai. But people found inspiration and motivation in me traveling, and I started posting my travels on social media like everybody else. And when that happened, people caught wave and became viral. This guy in his wheelchair is traveling the world, and people started asking me questions like, Hey, my grandmother has mobility issues. Where did you stay when you went to Jamaica? Hey, my brother is newly paralyzed. Where are some places we can go? And they was like, this dude is everywhere. He’s like a nomad. This dude is a nomad. And me being who I am and being goofy, I was like, yep, call me the wheelchair nomad. And before I know it, I just jokingly said it in a comment, and before I know someone was like, y’all check out the wheelchair nomad. Check out the wheelchair nomad. I was like, all right, I guess just stick it down.

Melyssa Barrett: I mean, it’s so amazing. You’ve done so many things. I mean, you talk about Dubai and Italy, but did I hear that you did skydiving,

Fletcher Cleaves: Correct? Yes. I went skydiving also. Oh my God. And it’s one of those things, it’s like, what else can I do I want to do? I want to go skydiving. So I made some phone calls and some companies were, yeah, if you can’t walk, we can’t are not doing that. But then I reached out to Atlanta, Georgia to the Sheer Center, which is the spinal rehabilitation center I went to and I was like, Hey, do y’all know the one that helps paralyze people skydive? I was like, absolutely. And I reached out and we got busy.

Melyssa Barrett: Wow, that’s awesome.

Fletcher Cleaves: It fantastic.

Melyssa Barrett: That is fantastic.

Fletcher Cleaves: It, I think Will Smith said it is crazy to think when you’re skydiving and they open the door and you realize, I’ve never been on an airplane with the door over before. You’re like, this is real life

Melyssa Barrett: Look. And I do not want to experience that. So I’m glad you all do it, but I will vicarious,

Fletcher Cleaves: Why not? Come on. You can do it.

Melyssa Barrett: Oh no,

Fletcher Cleaves: You can do it. Oh no.

Melyssa Barrett: I used to think I was afraid of heights, but I think I’m just afraid of falling.

Fletcher Cleaves: Yeah, I understand. I understand. One of the most memorable parts of the experience where we were ascending in the air and going up and going up, and it was summertime. So it’s basically an empty a shell of a plane. There are no seats or nothing. You sitting on the ground. And so the guy opens the door and I’m first So of He opens the door. Yeah. All right. And it is like 12 people behind me and I’m the first one. So I’m like, all right, yeah. And he opens the door and I look out, I’m like, okay, is it time to go? Is we getting ready? He was like, oh no, it’s just hot on this plane. I opened the door to cool off. We have about 9,000 more feet to go up. Oh, no, this is good right here. Y’all need to drop me off. Yeah, this is plenty high for me.

Melyssa Barrett: Oh my goodness.

Fletcher Cleaves: Yeah. We’re only in like 6,000 feet. I just opened the door to cool the plane off. We have about 9,000.

Melyssa Barrett: Okay. Well,

Fletcher Cleaves: I know, whatever you say, boss,

Melyssa Barrett: What pushes you to keep trying new things? And I mean, I’m assuming there’s some level of fear that shows up at some point.

Fletcher Cleaves: Absolutely. Fear. I use it as a tool rather than the crutch. Everything you’ve ever wanted in life is on the other side of fear. So everything that you think you can accomplish, think about it. Even with my entrepreneurship that I’m doing now, I worked in it for nine years, and every year I would say, this is my last year and I’m going to be an entrepreneur next year. And then I got a promotion then, okay, I’m going to just wait one more year. And before I know it, I’ve been in this company nine years. Nine years has passed. So I was afraid to let go of that steady income and the dittle and good benefits of that. But before seeing circumstances came about and God basically pushed me into entrepreneurship. So I was afraid, but it’s been working out for me and I’ve been blessed. So it keeps me pushing to understand that life is meant for the living. A lot of people are alive, but they’re not living, and we only get one opportunity at this thing called life. So I want to make sure that I get the most that I can of it.

Melyssa Barrett: Wow, people needed to hear that. That’s awesome. So then I want to go back though, because I want you to talk to me about, I know I’m a Delta. Some people know, listen, I’m a Delta.

Fletcher Cleaves: Yeah.

Melyssa Barrett: And I know you’re an Omega man.

Fletcher Cleaves: Absolutely.

Melyssa Barrett: I want to hear from you, what was that thought process like for you to decide you wanted, was that during college or at what point did you decide you wanted to be an Omega man?

Fletcher Cleaves: Yeah. So even before I got injured, when I was playing ball in college, I wanted to cross Omega. I had a family member that was Omega, and it was pretty cool that the things I saw him doing in the community. And then also when I got hurt in the local area, some Omegas came and visited me and was like, we just heard about your story. We don’t even go to your school. We go to a neighboring school and we want to just, and it was something that I was like, see, this is what I’m talking. This is the organization I want to be a part of outreaches in the community and helping people that don’t even know that don’t even know that they don’t even know. Excuse

Melyssa Barrett: Me.

Fletcher Cleaves: And then when I transferred back home and came to University of Memphis, when I was able to get my grades and everything in order and get back, I just, I’m newly injured, so I didn’t want to immediately, well, freshmen came college anyway, so I wanted to meet, I wanted to get acclimated to the campus and I understand my disability, things I could and couldn’t do. And then once I got that down pat, I was like, you know what? I would like to go to an interest meeting. And it was history from there.

Melyssa Barrett: I love it. That’s awesome. Some of my favorite people are in the Divine Nine. We have a preference for the Omegas, but I will

Fletcher Cleaves: Say, yeah,

Melyssa Barrett: I understand. I got lots of love for the Divine Nine.

Fletcher Cleaves: I understand.

Melyssa Barrett: That’s awesome.

Fletcher Cleaves: We know who your favorite is though,

Melyssa Barrett: And I’ll tell you, I’m excited because I know you’re going to be coming to my city next year.

Fletcher Cleaves: Tracy ca, right?

Melyssa Barrett: Yes. Tracy, California. So we are excited. I know the Tracy Area alumni chapter of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Incorporated is hosting an Empowerment day. And I think it’s going to be just phenomenal to have you speaking to these kids and helping them understand maybe they might feel stuck in a situation, maybe they experience bullying or anxiety or whatever other kind of struggles. What advice do you have, any advice you would give to help them move forward without giving away all your secrets?

Fletcher Cleaves: I was about to say that I can’t give away the speech now. I’ll give that to February. But I just know that I think from the feedback I’ve gotten from kids and even parents, I think that’s one of the most fulfilling things that when parents reach out was like, I wasn’t even there, but my child has been talking about you for the past four days. So stuff like that, that kind of uplifts me and gives me fulfillment. So I think it’ll be a great time and a great, great presentation.

Melyssa Barrett: Yes, we are excited and especially knowing that it’s going to be Black History Month, and we’re planning for a lot of excellence toward the evening. So I think it’s just going to be a full day of just empowerment and joy.

Fletcher Cleaves: Absolutely.

Melyssa Barrett: And so now I know you’ve also become a symbol of what it means to persevere. And I know you talk a lot about the sky is not the limit, and we talked about skydiving. What do you think are maybe a few things adults can do to help kids that are struggling with limitations in their own life?

Fletcher Cleaves: Yes. So I would definitely say positive reinforcement, positive affirmation is definitely a positive, but also not in a sense of where it becomes hindering. Understand, let them know it’s okay to fail. It’s okay to not be successful. And just because you continuously try doesn’t mean you will be still be successful. You can continuously try and still fail on the outcome, and that’s cool. But the worst thing is to never try it all. To never try it all. Then you never know. You’re going through life thinking about the what ifs. I tell kids all the time, 20 years from now, you’re going to regret the things you didn’t do versus the things you did. Even back, they was like, man, even thinking back, some things I did regret I didn’t do. I never should have. I’m going to just say play soccer, but I have more regretfulness of the fact that I didn’t even try out for the baseball team. I should at least try out things like that.

Melyssa Barrett: Yes.

Fletcher Cleaves: So you government regretted things you didn’t do versus things you did. And I tell kids all the time, it’s like you are a young adult and help wise’s going to baby you anymore, especially when you get to college. I remember instance when I was in college, and soon as I got to class and All right, everybody turn on your papers, real papers. It was like, oh, you didn’t read the clean. You didn’t read the syllabus, Mr. Cleves. I mean, yeah, the syllabus you gave us two months ago. Yeah, I’m not your mother. It’s not my, I told you what day it was due. I told you what it is not my job to be your mother, Mr. Cleves. But now she said, it’s my last name. And I said, no, ma’am. She said, that means I’m neither your mother nor your wipes. So it’s not my job to tell. I was like, good guy. You could at least reminded me. But no,

Melyssa Barrett: No reminder. There’s no reminder

Fletcher Cleaves: Exactly those. It was things like that. It was like, okay, let me get myself together to understand, oh yeah, these people are not going to debut and just be positive and stay positive and always have that positive mindset. Having a positive mindset has got me through so much things in life. Just the glass is always half full. I try not to think about the negative, what I can do versus what I can’t do.

Melyssa Barrett: Yeah. I love it. So what’s something maybe most people don’t know about you that might surprise somebody?

Fletcher Cleaves: Is this a podcast video or audio only?

Melyssa Barrett: Well, it can be either.

Fletcher Cleaves: Okay. I was wondering because most people won’t realize how handsome I am because audio only.

Melyssa Barrett: I love it. Well, for sure we going to put that on video.

Fletcher Cleaves: Yeah, for sure. But most people, I would definitely say I’m just a regular guy. People that genuinely know me, they say they honestly say we forget Fletch is even in a wheelchair. We’ll just be talking and they’ll be like, Hey, Fletch, hang me that or do that. I’ll be like, you want me to get on top of, oh, I forgot my bad. But that’s a good thing that I live my life in such a manner that it makes people forget that I have a disability, especially my family, my cousins. There ain’t nothing wrong with Fletcher. You tricking all, y’all

Melyssa Barrett: Freaking us off.

Fletcher Cleaves: Exactly. But yeah, I just try to be a regular dude and just live my life and try to stay positive and control things I can’t control and the things I can’t control, I give it to the most high.

Melyssa Barrett: There you go. Let’s pause for a moment. We’ll be right back. Well, in this podcast I tend to talk to a lot of people about diversity, equity, and inclusion, and there’s a lot going on these days with respect to diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging, whatever you want to talk about. What do you think about the

Fletcher Cleaves: Conversation? I definitely think it’s needed. A lot of companies are getting rid of the DEI programs and I definitely think it’s needed to understand that just the conversation is that some people in life have been given a headstart. We all didn’t start at the same place, right?

Melyssa Barrett: Yes.

Fletcher Cleaves: So it’s like you telling me we got to run four laps and you starting on lap three, that ain’t fair. So things of that nature and to kind of even the playing field. Now, I’m not saying that less or qualified individuals should get opportunities, but just understanding equally qualified or understanding that a person might be more qualified and to understand, hey, they deserve opportunity in some of these roles as well.

Melyssa Barrett: Yes, absolutely. And tell us a little bit about, because I know you’re doing a lot of work these days speaking.

Fletcher Cleaves: Yes, ma’am.

Melyssa Barrett: And now as your own CEO entrepreneur, how do people stay connected with you, support your work, and maybe bring you to their community?

Fletcher Cleaves: Yes. Social media is a great way to get in contact with me. Instagram, rolling on faith. That’s R-O-L-L-I-N-O-N-F-A-I-T-A. So rolling with a G,

My website, just fletcher cleves.com. You can read more about my story, the things I got going recently and read information about the wheelchair nomad and fill out a contact form if you would like for me to speak at any upcoming event you have coming or if you would like to inquire about speeches or that if you just would like to donate for our cause. We are a community organization where we empower the community. So for instance, I’m putting together a field day on August 9th and basically, I don’t know if y’all have these in California, but downtown, we had field days where in elementary middle school where there was no school on a Friday and it was basically a carnival for kids, they would’ve a dunk tank where you had miss the principal in the dunk tank and they would have nachos and pizza. And the whole school was a carnival. Like this floor is for food, this floor is for games, the outside is the dunk tank and the water activities. So basically they let us just, I don’t say run wild, because there was chaperones and things like that. So I’m doing something similar for the community just to bring that inner child out of us in a park here in Memphis, food trucks, water slide dominoes, spa horseshoes, a big family kind of ideal just for the community.

And of course it’s, it’s not free, but I’m funding all of it out of my pocket. So if people would like to donate to that cause and just help, you can also go on my website for that.

Melyssa Barrett: Oh, that’s awesome. I love it all about the community. So that’s pretty cool.

Fletcher Cleaves: The community, it takes a village that I really believe it takes a village.

Melyssa Barrett: Absolutely. So then what’s next for you? Where are you going to visit next? What’s next on your list of things to do?

Fletcher Cleaves: Yes. I’ve been to the Caribbeans a lot lately, but I haven’t taken any big, I call ’em big trips to Europe or Asia or so I want to get back to doing those type of trips and not, I’m entitled to Mexico and Jamaica and all that. Barbados. I’m thankful for those. But to me, I tell people all the time after your fifth Island, they all start to look the same. It’s water and a beach and a resort. It is, okay, we going to just keep parisel what we did the same thing in Jamaica. So anyway, I just like to expand different cultures and different foods and activities and a city like Tokyo or Hong Kong or Dubai and things of that nature. So I want to get back to doing that. But on the closer side, on the short term, just presentations, I’m trying to get finances in order and figure out more ways I can give back to the community.

Melyssa Barrett: That’s fantastic. You mentioned earlier, I have a mother that has mobility issues and I’ve always been trying to plan this vacation to take her back. She’s from Panama, and so I’ve never been, and I’ve always wanted to go, but I do struggle with how do you plan a trip where you have to think about just being able to go upstairs or all of that?

Fletcher Cleaves: Yeah, Panama, Florida or the country? Panama.

Melyssa Barrett: The country.

Fletcher Cleaves: Okay.

Melyssa Barrett: Okay.

Fletcher Cleaves: So yeah, international, the United States, they spoiled us because for the most part, all the cities are somewhat accessible,

But then when you go to different countries, that gets a little more tricky. But you just have to, I try to stick to your mainstream hotels. I look for Marriott Properties in different countries, Hilton properties in different countries. But then when you get into the actual country and live in, like you said, she’s from there. So I’m pretty sure you want to see family and going through neighborhoods, and that becomes a little more tricky. And you just have to be prepared, be prepared to experience uncomfortability. It sucks to say, but I travel with, when I go to countries that I might not be the most accessible or might not be first world countries or cities like Tokyo and Hong Kong might be something lesser. I try to take people with me so prepared, my boys go with me, my frat brothers or my brothers or whomever may travel with me. So when I do encounter those inconveniences, they’re like, okay, yeah, we got flex. We going to help ’em through this or navigate through this and do that. So that’s why I definitely say it takes a village. But I would say for the first time, I definitely try to stick with your mainstream, what is it called? Not a bed planner people you call travel agent, not a bed planner. What is it? A travel agent.

Yeah. Try to speak to mainstream travel agents that have experience with transportation. Okay. I know a transportation, accessible transportation van that can take you all around these different areas. But just planning, if you can plan, then I think it’s definitely doable.

Melyssa Barrett: Yeah, that’s awesome. And then in terms of your entire, because you have such a brand now, whether it be, I mean, you’ve done TEDx, you’ve done, I mean, I don’t even know how some of these things come to be because there’s so much that you have to offer and are giving. I mean, you are giving yourself, people can look you up online and they get a lot of information about you.

Fletcher Cleaves: Absolutely.

Melyssa Barrett: But then you come and bring even more. So it’s amazing.

Fletcher Cleaves: People ask, so what do you do? Are you a speaker? Are you a traveler? What is your main audience? Is it sports? Is it students? Is it businesses? I’m like, my story is so diverse that I’m an athlete, so I know how to give a sports presentation to collegiate athletes. I’ve done old men, university of Memphis sports teams. I do the students with the understanding, making smart decisions as you get older. I’ve done the corporate events where leadership and development presentations. So I just try to be well diverse in my craft.

Melyssa Barrett: That’s awesome. And I know, if I remember correctly, you were working in technology at

Fletcher Cleaves: Absolutely, yes, ma’am.

Melyssa Barrett: Because I think people are struggling with this whole work at home versus go back to the office and all of that kind of stuff. So what has that been like for you working in tech?

Fletcher Cleaves: Yeah, so well, when I was working in tech, I loved it. It is a lucrative field, but just pre COVID, just sitting behind that desk every day and a cubicles. It just wasn’t for me. So I mean, I did it for eight years, but I was like, you tell me, I got an hour for lunch. And it was cool there because that’s what we were conditioned, especially growing up. You’re in school eight hours a day, so you’re conditioned to be prepared to be in a cubicle for eight hours a day. But then once COVID happened, and then I was at home and I got a little free time to work on the balcony work at Starbucks or whatever, I’m like, okay, this is a little different. I like this. And then I became an entrepreneur and I’m like, oh, I can just make my, I could do whatever. So it’s like I like this way better.

Melyssa Barrett: Yeah.

Fletcher Cleaves: Hey, fledge, we’re about to go to lunch. You want to? Yep, sure do. I have nothing. So it is that type of freedom and that type of, but it’s a feast or famine type of deal because you got to know how to budget your finances. It’s not just always glory. You got to budget your finances. You might say, oh, January was a very lucrative month. It is good. But then you realizing that you have no income for May, June, and July. So it’s like, okay, let me focus back. You got to enjoy January, but then you got to prepare for the future months.

Melyssa Barrett: Yes. That is the life of an entrepreneur sometimes. There are definitely the peaks and valleys. Absolutely. That’s awesome. Well, and how are you enjoying being a small business owner? That’s got to be an experience, but I love the fact that you’re kind of bringing out, you get to write the rules. And I think a lot of times when people go into small business, I mean, actually my dad worked for Xerox for many, many years and then retired and went into his own business, and I watched him and I was like, Ooh, I do not want to do that. He used to tell me, it’s like everybody has the same 24 hours in a day. You and the president, what are you doing today?

Fletcher Cleaves: Absolutely.

Melyssa Barrett: And I was like,

Fletcher Cleaves: Same 24 hours,

Melyssa Barrett: But I was like nine years old. I’m like,

Fletcher Cleaves: Playing Hoskins. That’s what I want to do. I want to go jump real quick. I want to play basketball.

Melyssa Barrett: My mind was not where his mind was, but now looking at it, I love the fact that we get to do what we want to do.

Fletcher Cleaves: Absolutely. Yes. Yes. But like I said, so I always glory. I tell people all the time, there’s a difference between making money and running a business. See, a lot of people know how to make money, but they don’t know how to run a business. It’s like, okay, I tell people all the time, I’ll say, January, it was a lucrative month, right? I’m going to just throw out a number, right? I’m going to just say January $10,000, right? And it was like, oh, great job. I’m like, yeah, but you understand the business made $10,000. I have to buy plane tickets. I have to get to these speeches. I have to buy food. I have to pay somebody to travel with me. And after all that, I then have to pay taxes on that money.

Melyssa Barrett: Yes.

Fletcher Cleaves: So it’s like I didn’t make 10,000. The business may tend doctor.

Melyssa Barrett: Yes, yes.

Fletcher Cleaves: I’ll walk the away 2000.

Melyssa Barrett: Preach. Preach, Fletcher. It’s amazing. So what else would you say to folks that are out there and getting ready to see you over the next few months? Is there some things we can do to prepare ourselves? I mean, I keep hearing you got this personality that’s kind of like culture shifting.

Fletcher Cleaves: Oh yeah. I definitely, from what people tell me, I don’t want to brag, but I’m a non-traditional speaker, so to speak. I love to have a good time. You definitely want to bring a notepad, and you definitely want to get ready to laugh and have a good time.

Melyssa Barrett: So

Fletcher Cleaves: People, my friends and family, they always say, it is so amazing to watch Butcher speak because we’ve always known this person. But to see people experience it for the first time, you look in the crowd and you see people laughing, then they’re crying, then they’re laughing again, and then they, they’re crying, and then they’re like, what is going on? So it is just a fun time.

Melyssa Barrett: I love it. And I mean, I think what’s nice is that you allow yourself to be visible and share your story out loud. And there are a lot of people in society that kind encourage people with disabilities to fade into the background, and you’re like, oh no, I’m here. I’m doing whatever,

Fletcher Cleaves: Excuse me, down here. Yeah. I love being the nontraditional disabled person when I go to an establishment, and especially if I’m with somebody, this used to happen all the time, and we would go somewhere and they would be talking to the person I’m with, does he want a water or coke? Oh, don’t, no, ask him. Yeah. It was like, or it happened the other day. I rented a car for, I had to drive to a speech, or the person I was going with was driving. So I took them with me to pick up the rental car and they were like, will you be needing insurance? And a ma’am, look, I’m just a driver. Ask him every question that you need to know. Yeah, it does. You, oh, I’m sorry, sir. I didn’t realize that you, yeah, I’m Fletcher. I’m the guy whose names on the reservation.

Melyssa Barrett: Well, and it’s interesting because what stories do you think are missing when we think about our media and culture, especially when it comes to black men disabilities that they may be struggling with and the impact of those gaps? How do we start filling the gap in terms of just getting stories out there to help people?

Fletcher Cleaves: Exposure

Melyssa Barrett: For sure.

Fletcher Cleaves: Yeah, just exposures, whether it’s social media or news or podcasts, showing, especially our young black people showing more successful people that aren’t athletes, entertainers or musicians. Showing more successful business owners that’s like, Hey, I make seven figures a month, or whatever, showing it’s like, okay, I know this was an option. I thought it was acting in basketball, right?

Melyssa Barrett: Yeah.

Fletcher Cleaves: So showing that and whether it’s showing more disabled people that are in the community where people, I get so many messages, I didn’t even know. Excuse me, I didn’t even know I could skydive. Yeah, did you ask number one, I was like, I’ve never seen anybody do it, and so I want to be that focal point was like, okay, I’ve seen somebody do this before, so I want to do it too. And I’m pretty sure that’s how it was back in the Jim Crow era showing successful black people or showing smart black people or letting people know that you don’t have to have, which is nothing wrong, but you don’t have to have these blue collar jobs or these factory jobs, so to speak all day. You can go to college, you can be a doctor.

Melyssa Barrett: Yeah. That’s awesome. Well, and clearly you’re showing people we can do whatever we want no matter who we are and what capabilities we have. So I think it’s awesome what you are doing in the world. I just love just the zeal. I mean, I think you got that million dollar smile that kind of make people just fills up the room and

Fletcher Cleaves: My parents being my parents. So people ask me where I get my humor from. It’s definitely from my parents, my dad and my mom. They are just as silly as I am. And once my dad, my incident, my car crash happened, and that was like, did have any brain damage? No. Okay. Is he okay? He’s going to be okay. He’s just paralyzed. And my dad, this is my mom asked a question and I just got my braces off probably like a year prior to my car crash. And my dad was like, which I jokingly did he mess his teeth up? I paid $6,000 for braces. That’s what I want about.

Melyssa Barrett: Oh my goodness.

Fletcher Cleaves: He was like, okay. He fine. What about his teeth? He owed me $6,000 if he’s knocked his teeth out.

Melyssa Barrett: That sound like some people I know. I love it,

Fletcher Cleaves: But it’s just joking, being silly,

Melyssa Barrett: But it’s like that’s what we need in life.

Fletcher Cleaves: Absolutely.

Melyssa Barrett: That’s awesome. Any other closing thoughts, things you want people to know?

Fletcher Cleaves: Yeah, absolutely. I’d love to end with this quote or a couple quotes. I won’t say ’em all because I’m going to say some of ’em in my presentation. But number one, where the sky not the limit comes from is like, don’t tell me the sky’s limit. When there are footprints on the moon, there are no limitations to what you can achieve. There are no limitations to what you can accomplish there. Only limit limitations are the ones you oppose on yourself. And then secondly, understand that adversity happens to everybody, but it’s not what happens to you that defines you, how you respond to it.

Melyssa Barrett: That’s awesome. Oh, we did not give a proper shout out to your chapter.

Fletcher Cleaves: Shout out to the man.

Melyssa Barrett: The omegas have spoken.

Fletcher Cleaves: Absolutely.

Melyssa Barrett: And I love, I think there’s not enough discussion about what the Divine nine does. I know there’s been more talk about some of that lately, but it’s so wonderful to hear about the positive impact that you are making in your community and the Omegas are making, and we just want to make sure we continue to broaden our focus and impact on the community. So a big shout out and thank you to you and all you’re doing in the world, you are leaving a legacy, my man. You are living a legacy, shall I sing? I

Fletcher Cleaves: Appreciate it

Melyssa Barrett: And we are so excited to have you, and I look forward to seeing you. We’re going to rock the house, so

Fletcher Cleaves: Absolutely. I’m excited as well.

Melyssa Barrett: If you want to see Fletcher Cleaves, come on out and join us. It’s going to be an exciting and just an overall wonderful time, so we are excited to have you.

Fletcher Cleaves: Absolutely. I appreciate you all too.

Melyssa Barrett: Alright, sir. Well, let’s see. I was trying to think if I had anything I wanted to ask you, but I think that was, I do want to just let people know that Empowerment Day will be held with Fletcher Cleaves, the Wheelchair Nomad on February 6th, 2026 in Tracy, California. He is an amazing, amazing guy. You do not want to miss this. He has created and shared his story on stages across the country, including ESPN, college Game Day, countless schools and communities. And he is such a man of focus on intersectional representation. We are not a monolith. He is an advocate for accessibility and clearly he speaks candidly about so many things with respect to systemic barriers, diversity, leadership. It is a session, an event that you do not want to miss. So come on out and join us and we look forward to seeing everybody. So stay tuned for all the details. Thanks for joining me on the Jali Podcast. Please subscribe so you won’t miss an episode. See you next week.